Though Mike Pence hadn’t seen Donald Trump since leaving the White House, the former vice president said he was grateful to get a moment to speak with him at Jimmy Carter’s state funeral this week.
The day after the funeral, Pence talked with Christianity Today editor in chief Russell Moore about his continued prayers for his former running mate; his impressions of the incoming administration, including Robert F. Kennedy Jr.; and his interactions with Carter.
“The opportunity to speak to the president yesterday is something that I appreciated, I welcomed,” he told Moore, in a CT podcast episode that will air Wednesday. “I’ve really been blessed at how much I’ve heard from people around the country who saw [our] handshake, and in that handshake, saw some hope that we might be moving past those difficult days. That’s certainly my hope.”
As the former presidents, first ladies, and vice presidents sat together at the National Cathedral on Thursday, “Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe that God put me on one of these rows,” Pence remarked. Media coverage scrutinized the small interactions among them, noting Pence’s handshakes with the Trumps and former Second Lady Karen Pence’s refusal to acknowledge either.
“He greeted me when he came down the aisle. I stood up, extended my hand. He shook my hand. I said, ‘Congratulations, Mr. President,’ and he said, ‘Thanks, Mike,’” Pence said.
“You’d have to ask my wife about her posture, but we’ve been married 44 years, and she loves her husband, and her husband respects her deeply.”
The very public reunion was far from the only thing on his mind at the funeral. Before joining the Reagan Revolution and becoming a Republican, Pence had voted for Carter and was “greatly heartened that there was a born-again Christian serving in the White House,” he told Moore. Backstage at an event in 2015, Pence said he got to thank the 39th president for his service and commended how Carter “spoke plainly about his faith in Jesus Christ” in office.
Pence brought born-again bona fides to the Republican presidential ticket in 2016, and both he and Trump have applauded their work together in the White House and the legacy of their administration. Yet the two split political paths in the tumultuous aftermath of the January 6, 2021, Capitol riot and hadn’t seen each other in nearly four years.
Pence went on to enter the presidential race as a candidate in 2023 but dropped out by the year’s end. When Pence opted not to endorse Trump last year, the president said he “couldn’t care less” and that “we need strong people in this country, we don’t need weak people.”
Pence has repeatedly stood by his role of certifying President Joe Biden’s 2020 win, despite the political fallout.
During the interview with Moore, Pence’s most critical remarks came when asked about some of Trump’s nominees for his upcoming term. He said he doesn’t think the Republican-controlled Senate should confirm Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to head Health and Human Services, citing the former independent presidential contender’s pro-choice stance on abortion and lack of qualifications.
A stalwart advocate for the United States’ continued support of Ukraine, Pence also said he had concerns about former US Rep. Tulsi Gabbard potentially serving as national intelligence director, citing her “willingness to essentially be an apologist for [Russian President Vladimir] Putin over recent months,” and added that her 2017 visit with Syria’s recently ousted dictator, Bashar al-Assad, is also a matter of concern.
Since the close of the first Trump administration, Pence has stayed active in the advocacy world and founded Advancing American Freedom, which focuses on advancing conservative social and economic policies.
He’s also spent time praying for Trump, as he pledged he would do in one of their final conversations in office. Trump told him, “Don’t bother,” he recalls. But Pence reiterated the sentiment at the meeting’s end as he stood ready to walk out the door: “I said, ‘You know, there’s probably two things that we’re never going to agree on. … We’re probably never going to agree on what my duty was under the Constitution on January 6.’ And then I said, ‘and I’m never going to stop praying for you.’
“And he said, ‘That’s right, Mike, don’t ever change.’”
Update: The full interview with Pence was released on The Russell Moore Show podcast on January 15.
