Capital Punishment. Last Rites. Cape Fear. After Death. Hell Fire. Apocalypse Now. 911. Endorphin Rush. The latest movies?
Nope. Labels from Rick Warren’s collection of hot sauces.
“Listen to this one,” he says with a grin, reading from a label. “There is a point where pleasure and pain intersect, a doorway to a new dimension of sensual euphoria, where fire both burns and soothes, when heat engulfs every neuron within you. Once that line is crossed, once the bottle is opened, once it touches your lips, there’s no going back. Pain is good.”
Sounds a lot like ministry.
Rick Warren has known “the intersection of pain and pleasure” as pastor of Saddleback Valley Community Church, a church he founded in Orange County, California, in 1980.
Despite the rapid growth of Saddleback, Warren writes in The Purpose-Driven Church (Zondervan) that “the key issue for churches in the twenty-first century is church health, not church growth.” Leadership editors Ed Rowell and Kevin Miller, and photographer Bill Youngblood, recently spent an afternoon with Warren to talk about what it takes to develop a healthy church. That soon led into what it takes to be a healthy pastor.
Why do you say health should replace growth as the focal point for pastors?
Rick Warren: Because size is not the issue. You can be big and healthy, or big and flabby. You can be small and healthy, or small and wimpy. Big isn’t better; small isn’t better. Healthy is better. There is no correlation between the size and strength of a church. I’m interested in helping churches become balanced and healthy. If they are healthy, growth will naturally happen. I don’t have to command my kids to grow. If I provide them with a healthy environment, growth is automatic. If growth is not happening, it means something’s wrong, because it’s the nature of living organisms to grow.
But kids reach a point where they stop growing physically
Absolutely. That’s why I began trying to change the terminology from church growth to church health about ten years ago; church growth automatically means numerical growth to most people. That’s just one kind of growth God wants in his church.
Health Is Quantifiable.
In the early 1980s, I used the term “church growth” because that was what everybody was familiar with. But I stopped using the phrase around 1986 because of the things I didn’t like about the church growth movement.
Such as?
I don’t like the incessant comparing of churches. The Bible says it’s foolish to compare yourself to others. If you find somebody who’s doing a better job than you, you get discouraged. Or you find you’re doing a better job than someone else; you become proud. Either way, you’re dead in the water. Another thing I didn’t like was the movement’s tendency to be more analytical than prescriptive. A lot of the church growth books were not written by pastors; they were written by theorists. I want a doctor who helps me get healthy again, not just one who tells me I’m sick. One best-selling book on small groups was written by a guy who’s never been in a small group in his life.
If numerical growth is an unreliable indicator of health, how can you tell if your church is healthy?
It’s not unreliable, just inadequate. There are five ways to measure growth. A church needs to grow warmer through fellowship, deeper through discipleship, stronger through worship, broader through ministry, and larger through evangelism. You don’t judge an army’s strength by how many people sit in the mess hall. You judge an army on the basis of how many people are trained and active on the front line. The percentage of members being mobilized for ministry and missions is a more reliable indicator of health than how many people attend services. A church that’s running 200 in a town of 1,000 is doing a better job than Saddleback.
We were recently with a pastor in rural Indiana. His church’s children’s program reaches 40 percent of the kids in the school district.
Wow. That’s a highly effective church. Percentage-wise, that beats anything we’re doing here. A church may max out its numerical growth potential because of location, but it can continue its effectiveness. Another mark of maturity is the ability to start having babies. I want to see churches that are plateaued in numerical growth begin to reproduce through church planting. We’re now in the grandparent phase; we have churches that were started by churches started by Saddleback. That’s a lot of fun because we get the credit, but we don’t have to mess with the dirty diapers.
How do you cultivate health in a church?
Health is the result of balance. Balance occurs when you have a strategy and a structure to fulfill every one of what I believe are the five New Testament purposes for the church–worship, evangelism, fellowship, discipleship, and ministry. If you don’t have a strategy and a structure that intentionally balances the purposes of the church, the church tends to overemphasize the purpose the pastor feels most passionate about. In evangelicalism, we tend to go to seed on one truth at a time. You attend one seminar and hear, “The key is seeker services.” You go to another: “The key is small groups.” “The key is discipleship.” “Expository preaching.” The fact is, they’re all important. When a church emphasizes any one purpose to the neglect of others, that produces imbalance–unhealth. That causes a lot of churches to remain stunted.
How do you keep things balanced?
Four things must happen. You’ve got to move people into membership, build them up to maturity, train them for ministry, and send them out on their mission. We use a little baseball diamond to illustrate that. We’ve got a scorecard to evaluate progress. Just like when you go to a doctor and he checks all kinds of vital signs, the health of a church is quantifiable. For example, I can measure how many more people are involved in ministry this month than last month. How you accomplish those four objectives doesn’t matter.
But wasn’t Saddleback’s unique style a big reason for your rapid growth?
People always overemphasize style because it’s the first thing they notice. The only important issue regarding style is that it matches the people God has called you to reach. We’ve planted twenty-six daughter churches, and we gave those pastors total freedom in matters of worship style and the materials they use. As long as you are bringing people to Christ, into the fellowship of his family, building them up to maturity, training them for ministry, and sending them out in mission, I like the way you are doing ministry.
In today’s society, how do you stay healthy when you bring in a lot of unhealthy people?
Health doesn’t mean perfection. My kids are healthy, not perfect. There will never be a perfect church this side of heaven, because every church is filled with pagans, carnal Christians, and immature believers. I’ve read books that emphasize, “You’ve got to reinforce the purity of the church.” But Jesus said, “Let the tares and the wheat grow together, and one day I’ll sort them out.” We’re not in the sorting business. We’re in the harvesting business. We do get a lot of unhealthy people at church, because society is getting sicker. But Jesus demonstrated that ministering to hurting people was more important than maintaining purity. When you fish with a big net, you catch all kinds of fish. That’s why one of the biggest programs in our church is recovery. We have from five to six hundred people attend Friday night recovery meetings with you-name-it addictions. One of the most important decisions we made was not to have a counseling center. If we put a full-time therapist on our staff, the person would fill up instantly, and 99 percent of the calls would still go unmet. We couldn’t keep up with five full-time therapists. Instead, we’ve trained about fifty lay people to do biblical counseling, along with a standard list of approved therapists we can refer to if need be.
How are the skills to grow a church different from the skills to grow a healthy church?
The skills may not be all that different, but growing a healthy church depends on the personal character of the leader. It is possible for an unhealthy pastor to lead a growing church, but it takes a healthy pastor to lead a healthy church. You can’t lead people further than you are in your own spiritual health.
What traits would indicate a pastor is healthy?
The first is authenticity. That means you are aware of your weaknesses and publicly admit them. I’m convinced that our greatest ministry to others comes out of our weaknesses, not our strengths. You can impress people from a distance, but you can influence them only up close. And if you’re going to influence people, you had better be honest, even about your weaknesses.
For example?
Last weekend at our men’s retreat, I talked about how my wife and I went for sexual therapy. That blew some people away. My wife was molested as a little girl; it caused all kinds of problems in our marriage. I went to therapy thinking she had a problem. But once we got there, I realized I had some attitudes that were perpetuating the problem. I tell those stories so people know that we’ve got real problems, too. Related to authenticity is humility. It’s hard to talk about how important it is to be humble. You can’t say, “Read my best-selling book on being a humble pastor.” (Laughter) It’s no accident that humor and humility come from the same root word. Humility is not denying your strengths; it’s being honest about your weaknesses. I’ve built a staff that makes me look good, because they compensate for my weaknesses. I do what I’m competent in, and I don’t do what I’m not competent in. Next is integrity. Is there congruence between what you say is important in your life and what you actually do? And, just like churches need balance, pastors do, too. “Blessed are the balanced, for they shall outlast everybody else.” So many pastors flame bright, then flame out. Finally, a healthy pastor is always learning. I read or skim almost a book a day. I flip through magazines everywhere I go. The moment you stop growing, your church stops growing.
What must you give up in order to continually read and learn?
Television, mostly. I read early in the morning and late at night. I’ve learned to get the ideas of a book quickly, to skim fast. Not every chapter in a book is of value.
Does giving up television hurt your ability to preach to unchurched people?
I haven’t completely given it up. But you don’t have to watch “Seinfield” or “Home Improvement” every week to know exactly what’s going on. I flip through TV Guide once a week to see if there’s anything I need to videotape. Then I’ll watch it on my schedule.
In Evangelicalism, We Tend To Go To Seed On One Truth At A Time
What does it take to find balance in your life?
It usually takes a crisis to get our attention. When we began Saddleback, I was imbalanced. I burned out by the end of the first year, and I was depressed all of the next year. My prayer was not, “God, build a great church.” It was, “God, just let me live through the next week.” But it’s good to have your losses right up front. The lessons I learned in that second year of depression saved me from flaming out for good. I set parameters. You’ve got to know who you are, whom you’re trying to please, and what contribution God wants you to make. For example, I don’t often speak at national events. Because I’m a trainer at heart, I usually leave our congregation only to train other pastors. I’m a local church pastor, and nothing is more fulfilling to me than pastoring my congregation. I don’t really care to be a celebrity on the circuit.
So to be healthy, you have to know your focus, your strengths and limitations.
Right. One limitation I have, for example, is that I was born with a brain malfunction. I took medicine from the time I was a child until college, because I would often faint. I could be sitting in a classroom and just keel over. I even had to take a year off from college because of this. It was a scary time. I’ve been under the care of the best neurologists around. It’s complicated, but a simplistic explanation is that my brain has an unusual reaction to adrenaline.
Good thing you’ve got a low-stress job.
(Laughter) Right. When a normal amount of adrenaline hits my system, I get dizzy and can black out. My vision remains blurred, my head throbs, and I feel intense panic until the adrenaline goes down. It’s like hanging to the top of the Empire State Building with one finger and looking down–absolute terror. Now anybody who speaks knows adrenaline is the pastor’s best friend. It gives you passion, alertness, and energy. The very thing I need to accomplish what God has called me to do acts like a poison for me. I guess it’s a thorn in the flesh. When I speak, I’m often unable to clearly see the congregation during the first several minutes of the normal adrenaline rush. People look blurry, I feel panic, and it is extremely painful to speak. I have asked a team to pray for me the entire service, during each of the four services. People ask me, “Do you ever get full of pride speaking to all those people?” Honestly, that’s the last thing on my mind. I’m praying, “God, get me through this. Use this weak vessel, and in my weakness, you be strong.”
What practical skills help keep you healthy?
Learning how to refuel physically, emotionally, spiritually. For example, I’ve learned to fall asleep in about five minutes. Last Saturday, I spoke twice at our men’s retreat. On the way back, I took a brief nap in the car, and I was able then to speak at two services that night. You can’t land every time you’re tired. You’ve got to learn to refuel in midair. To refuel, I do three things:
Divert daily
do something that’s fun.
Withdraw weekly
a day off every week.
Abandon annually
get away from your church to vacation, and don’t call in.
Are you able to stick with that?
Absolutely. I insist on it with my staff, too. It is a law at Saddleback that staff cannot work more than three nights in any week. I think the reason many pastors flame out in moral failure is that fatigue lowers our sensibilities. One pastor described his affair by saying, “I was under such stress that I pulled the trigger, then ran around and stood in front of the gun.” The only way he could get off the fast track was to sabotage himself.
Does it help to have an accountability group?
Nah. Accountability is overrated. It works only if you want it to. If I don’t really want you to know the truth, you’re not going to know the truth. The guy I just quoted had an accountability group.
Has your family’s health been negatively affected by your ministry?
I don’t think so. My wife and I are pastor’s kids so we knew exactly what we were getting into. The previous generation said, “If you put God first, then God will take care of your kids.” We believe that, but that’s not the same as putting the church first. So I’ve tried to demonstrate in practical ways that my family is more important than our church, such as not preaching at a Saturday service in order to take my daughter to a special school function. Our youngest son didn’t want to attend our children’s camp for years. But last summer he said, “Dad, I’ll go to camp if you’ll go with me.” Well, there was no question about it; I was going. But I was scheduled to speak at a preliminary Promise Keepers event for pastors in Atlanta. I canceled speaking at the PK event in order to be with my son.
What skills will you have to learn to stay healthy in the second half of life?
Well, I’m getting back into blues guitar. It’s a great stress reliever for a frustrated rock star like me! You oughta hear my “Backslider Blues,” baby! (Laughter) If you live in California, you’ve got to be bilingual, so I’m hoping to learn Spanish. But mostly I just want to keep sharpening the skills I’ve developed so far, just doing everything better–communicating, caring, planning, leading.
A number of pastors have moved out of local-church ministry in the second half of life. Do you see yourself doing that?
I have no change of plans for the next part of the journey. I’m not going anywhere. I’ll pastor Saddleback, and at the same time continue to train pastors in how to grow healthy, balanced, purpose-driven churches. Last year I was asked to consider becoming the new CEO of the Southern Baptist North American Mission Board. It’s a mammoth organization, with a $100 million budget, but I knew I was not the man. I love being a pastor. One reason pastors listen to me is they know I’m still changing diapers every week. I’m at bat every seven days. I still deal with cantankerous members. Pastoring keeps me honest as a trainer. Saddleback is kind of the Research and Development department of the church at large. We’re not afraid to fail. We’ve always tried more things that didn’t work than did. Every once in a while we find-usually by accident–something that works. Then we teach the seminars and pretend like we planned it all along, when really it was just the result of trial and error. (Laughter)
What have you learned about staying healthy that you didn’t know starting out?
I’ve learned to offer my resignation to Christ every Sunday. That causes me to hold God’s gift with an open hand, and the stress factor goes way down because my identity is not tied to integers. I’ve seen pastors toward the end of their ministry who start holding on. They’re afraid to let go even when they stay beyond their effectiveness. We’ve all seen professional athletes who played two seasons too long. It’s only when you don’t have to stay that you can stay.
1997 by the author or Christianity Today/Leadership Journal.Click here for reprint information onLeadership Journal.
