What goes through the mind of a contemporary spiritual seeker? While each person’s spiritual journey is different, two rudimentary questions must be answered: “Who was Jesus Christ?” and “Were his claims true?” For most people today, answering those questions is a complex process.
In August 1995, Paul Braoudakis, managing editor of WCA Monthly, the publication of Willow Creek Association, interviewed two couples attending Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois, who consider themselves spiritual seekers. Steve and Leigh Delisi, and Nathan and Mayumi Aaberg, are representive of many of the seekers encountering churches today. Hearing their questions and concerns directly gives us insight into the modern journey to faith in Christ.
What is your spiritual background?
Steve: I grew up with a strong Roman Catholic background. I was active in our church. I was a youth reader, and I worked at the priory, which is where the Dominican priests live. But I saw things I perceived as hypocritical, and it shook my faith.
Looking back, I never really made it a personal experience. I never stepped back and said, “Why is this what I believe? What’s it all about?” I stopped doing any kind of organized religion or church and stayed that way through college and my first year of medical school.
Leigh: I grew up in a Baptist church, but I was confirmed a Methodist after we moved here from Florida. We went to church every Sunday, and I did vacation Bible school every summer. I had an undeveloped, gut-feeling faith that I couldn’t really explain. Once I left home for college, I never went to church.
Nathan: I grew up in the Missouri-Synod Lutheran denomination and attended a Lutheran grade school, high school, and junior college. I’m not sure whether my faith ever really disappeared, but eventually I realized there had to be some re-evaluation of what I believed rather than just accepting what I grew up with. That has been a slow process-there wasn’t much urgency to it. Then I met Mayumi, and we got married. Some of the questions she asked created a lot more urgency because I couldn’t answer them … and I still can’t.
Mayumi: I came to the United States when I was about 7 years old with my mother and stepfather. He was Catholic, and his family was religious, but because of what he had to go through when he married my mother-a divorced woman-he became disillusioned and cynical.
My stepgrandparents would take me to church and enroll me in catechism classes. But because of the cynical feelings my parents had instilled in me, I began to question what was going on in the church. I never questioned if there was a God, but I was cynical about any form of organized religion. The whole issue of Christianity seemed egocentric, egotistical, and exclusionary of other cultures and other religions. I didn’t think a true God could be that way.
But when I married Nathan, it became evident that somehow I needed to resolve that whole issue. The reason I’m pursuing it is because it’s important to Nathan, and of course, it’s important to me also.
Who is Jesus Christ to you?
Steve: I’m not sure. That’s the clearest answer I can give. I am slowly building a belief of Christ as the Son of God and something other than the great prophets like Muhammad and Buddha. But I have yet to come to grips with the idea of a Savior.
Leigh: I believe Christ is the Son of God. But I’m not sure what it really means to say that, or that he came to save us from all of our sins. I don’t really buy what I consider to be the mutually exclusive dichotomy that Christ had to come here, die on the cross, and that it’s his blood that cleanses us. I have a real problem with that. Some people would say that means I’m not a Christian, but I tend to think I’m just a complex believer. I just don’t think it’s all that simple.
Mayumi: I think there is evidence that a person named Jesus existed. I don’t refute that. The problem I have with Christianity is that they focus on Jesus as Christ rather than the message or the example he set. By focusing exclusively on Jesus, I think it excludes other religions and other people from having a relationship with God. That really bothers me. I’m not sure if Jesus Christ is at the same level as Mother Teresa, Gandhi, or Martin Luther King, but I think he was someone we should learn from. Right now I’m at the point where I’m just not sure how I feel about him as Christ … as God.
Nathan: I believe Jesus was the Son of God and that he was God on earth. He is a tremendous opportunity for us to see what a Godlike life would be. What Jesus offers by believing in him is a mystical, spiritual power that will hopefully help us live as close as we can to what God intended.
Do you ever wonder how one man could have such a tremendous impact on almost every part of life-more so than the other religious leaders mentioned?
Mayumi: I struggle with that, yes. But I also struggle with the Bible. I struggle with how you interpret it and how accurate it is. Some people can’t separate Jesus’ message from the messenger. I tend to separate the two. I think maybe that even if Jesus was God, maybe we shouldn’t be focusing on him, but rather on what he wanted to teach us, whatever his message was.
What proactive steps are you taking in your spiritual journey?
Mayumi: In our seeker group, we decided to start reading a book by Paul Little, Know Why You Believe. I also plan to read more of the Bible. That’s on the back-burner, though, since I’m going to school right now. We also purchased the Josh McDowell book, Evidence That Demands a Verdict. I see it as a long process. I don’t expect to get the answers or become a believer instantly. I’m just taking little steps.
Nathan: I have a friend in the Lutheran church, and I’m trying to put together a list of questions that I have and maybe do some reading with him.
Steve: Books and tape series that people have recommended have been the main thrust for us. We get different books and discuss what we’ve been reading.
Leigh: In addition to reading the Bible-something neither one of us had really done before-right now I’m reading Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Sometimes I think, Nobody else ever has questions about this stuff. Then I pick up a book and realize some learned, scholarly people have devoted large chunks of their lives studying the very issues I’m grappling with.
Any examples?
Leigh: We had gone to Willow twice, and Steve asked me what I thought. I said, “Well, I think somebody had better talk to me about Paul and his wacko ideas about women! Because if I go to this church and they tell me that I have to be quiet and can’t assert any authority, I just won’t take any of that!”
So Steve bought me the book Beyond Sex Roles by Dr. Bilezikian, and I absorbed it all. It was so nice to know that what was a pivotal issue to me was also important to someone else.
How do you respond to John 14:6: “Jesus said, ‘I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me’ “?
Mayumi: I have a hard time believing he said that. That’s what men have said that he said. There are also different interpretations of what he meant by that. Is he saying he is God, or is he saying, “Follow my ways”?
Nathan: There’s a bit of a problem for me with that statement. Throughout history billions of people have been born without ever hearing those words or reading the Bible. But on the other hand-because essentially I do believe-those words are comforting to me.
Steve: We’ve talked a lot about that in our small group. So many other cultures are working toward the same goal and want to reach God and are faithful to him. It’s natural to say, “Look what they’re trying to do. How unfair it would be that just because of the culture they grew up with they won’t have that opportunity.” It seems incongruous with the way I think. I’m uncomfortable with it.
Leigh: The way I perceive Christianity right now is not centered on Christ, the person. It’s centered on God and the path that Christ outlines for us. I believe it’s a divinely inspired path, but I do have a problem with the interpretation that says, “If you do not worship Christ, the person, you’re not getting to heaven.” I don’t believe that.
When he says, “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life,” I think he’s talking about “My way, the way I’m trying to show you and demonstrate to you.” It’s something that you need to internalize. And I think that’s the way to get to a personal relationship with God.
Steve: I see and feel God’s work in both of us, and I just don’t know where Christ the Savior fits in. I thought when I started this journey it would be very steplike. In the beginning, I didn’t really know where I stood. Then I thought I would gain the intellectual knowledge about Christ and God. Then I would reach a relationship and understanding and internalize Christ. Then Christ would bring me to God.
But my subjective feeling right now is that my walk toward God is outpacing my walk toward Christ. I think that’s really the root of my trouble. I keep telling myself, “Be patient. It’s not going to be on my terms how this turns out.” But I like the direction the journey has taken so far. I feel that the Holy Spirit is entering us and is what’s causing me to take the actions I’m taking.
What’s holding you back from making a full commitment to Christ? What are your sticking points?
Mayumi: The whole Jesus-is-the-only-way-to-have-a-relationship-with-God thing really bothers me. I don’t think God would exclude people just because of where they were born … so I have a lot of problems with exclusionary aspects of Christianity.
Nathan: I have some intellectual questions. For example, the nature of God in the Old Testament and the nature of God in the New Testament sometimes seem quite different. In the Old Testament, you have a God who helps the nation Israel ruthlessly wipe out some of its enemies, and in the New Testament you have a loving God. Also, since Jesus was a Jew and he grew up in the tradition and fulfilled many of the prophecies of the Old Testament, why haven’t more Jews embraced him?
Steve: For me, it’s personal. My previous questions have all been at the intellectual level. I spent a lot of time reflecting on what I believed at the intellectual level. That side of things has filled in quite nicely. It’s a personal understanding, or belief, of what Christ did for us that I’m struggling with. I read it and reflect on it, and it just doesn’t make it for me. It’s the “Christian” part of Christianity-that God took human form, came down as Savior for our sins, and that it happened for me personally-that is the sticky issue for me.
Leigh: Mine is similar. I don’t know that it [Christ’s salvation] had to work the way people are trying to explain that it did. If other people are telling me my beliefs aren’t good enough in order to be a Christian and to be accepted into the “family,” that creates a lot of tension for me.
Where do you see yourselves in this process a year from now?
Steve: Pretty much doing what I’m doing now. A year from now if I’ve become a new believer, then I will be searching to move further along in that understanding. But our perspectives have changed dramatically from, say, a year ago. So it’s quite possible it could happen again.
Leigh: I can’t imagine not having these issues. One of the reasons I’m not in a new believer’s group is because I just don’t believe right now. I don’t see my faith developing to the point where I could just walk into a new believer’s group and accept it all.
Mayumi: For me, I think there’s going to be a milestone, a defining moment, where I’m finally going to make a decision on Jesus and the Bible. But for now I just see it as a process. I hope to spend more time and energy pursuing Christianity.
Since this interview was conducted, Steve and Leigh Delisi report they have made commitments of faith, accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior.
1997 by Christianity Today/Leadership Journal.
